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Sage
01-11-2006, 03:20 AM
...and really disappointed.


ph33r if you really think i hack, we can go to that internet cafe where the eurocss was held and i'll play just the same.

total bs tbh.

Bantros
01-11-2006, 03:28 AM
I was on TS with Deek, Castro & Grolsch when this happened.

Haven't actually seen any evidence but Deek was doing a lot of recording at the time when Sage went off on an absolute headshot rampage haha, never seen anything like it.

Dunno but seems you just moved from 2nd gear to 5th when I was on just then

Sage
01-11-2006, 03:30 AM
can i see the demos pls

anti-smoke? lol, have you heard of pre-fire?

Bantros
01-11-2006, 03:31 AM
Eep

Deek
01-11-2006, 03:38 AM
everyone has the right to see their demos

http://www.4shared.com/file/5244989/f02e893f/sage-_steam_0_0_8972456_.html

Dr.Gonzo
01-11-2006, 03:41 AM
Although we weren't recording we did some spec in between rounds and I have to say there was some very weird stuff going on. I don't want to say anymore Sammie mate... I would like to believe that you don't cheat, but I also know that Deek wouldn't post unless he was sure.

This is a very strange day.

Sage
01-11-2006, 04:23 AM
lol is all i can say tbh.. only the last demo showed a bit of dodgy shooting - prob the hitboxes (i have now idea) - sometimes my ping shoots upto 300+

anti smoke? you joking right?

gonna go have a shower and sleep, maybe this is a blessing in disguise

Dr.Gonzo
01-11-2006, 04:28 AM
You're right to point out the last demo...

I've watched all of them with wireframe on and it's very suspect. Your crosshair always wavers towards people and you even pop a few people through boxes with perfect headshots that just could not be done wihtout wallhacks or glass textures.

sage6.dem is the clincher though - I've watched it on 10% speed and you can see clear headshots registering and the crosshair snapping across to the heads after they've exploded. And you lined up and shot the first guy through the box in the head.

Your ping was fine all night Sammy man... I don't really know what else could explain the sixth demo other than something dodgy.

Sage
01-11-2006, 04:31 AM
i saw his shadow so wallbanged.

funny that coming from you castro - who was using bright skins

oh and my ping randomly shoots up and down, its very weird. how would you know about my ping?

Dr.Gonzo
01-11-2006, 04:37 AM
Why go attacking me man... I want to be supportive of you, but high ping does not equate to bizarre headshots.

If you can explain exactly what is going on in the demos man you know I'm behind you. Are you accusing me of hacking on FM or what? Because this is YOUR appeal man.

You notice when someones ping pops up in match - of course you do. I check scores all the time and you see high pings.

Regardless of how this goes down man, there's no need to take this shit personal man. Deek is very experienced at what he does. Perhaps you'd be better off directing your posts at the admin team and FM.

Sage
01-11-2006, 04:48 AM
after i got banned from fm i came on ts thinking it was a joke, i was so shocked. then castro says "youve finally slipped up man, save your bs for the forum" and kicks me!

how do you expect me to feel.

Dr.Gonzo
01-11-2006, 04:52 AM
Hang on a minute - that isn't what happened. You were shouting over Deek who was explaining why he made the decision so I kicked you from the channel. Arguing with him isn't going to alter things so I said post an appeal on the forum rather than rant and rave at the admin.

I'm sorry if you feel this is wrong.

Bum eCuthbert
01-11-2006, 04:59 AM
Just watched demos.

Dont protest your innocence mate. Go with watever dignity you have left.

Cant say i didnt see this coming.

Sage
01-11-2006, 05:02 AM
if your saying you didnt say "youve finally slipped up man, save your bs for the forum" then your a liar and i have lost all respect for you.

Deek
01-11-2006, 05:02 AM
leave it out of here, the demos are there, ive even asked ALL Admins with css to review all Demos, they will report back 2morro so go have you shower etc like you said, dont start laying into castro for nothing.

Dr.Gonzo
01-11-2006, 05:06 AM
if your saying you didnt say "youve finally slipped up man, save your bs for the forum" then your a liar and i have lost all respect for you.

Well, I didn't and there's witnesses in the channel to verify this. I wouldn't abuse the trust put in me by FM with my channel admin by kicking you if you weren't having a pop at Deek. Shouting the odds isn't going to sort anything out and I advised you to post on the forum.

I'm out of this thread. Say whatever you like.

sKYHiii
01-11-2006, 05:25 AM
Watched the demos. Slowed it down, it looks like ab, iregular bullet pattern from head to head.
My first encounter speaking to you was recording sum1 hacking. I havnt seen you play in a while and you were doing very well tonite, after seeing the demos, i find it very hard to say to myself you arnt hacking. Im always sceptile and never speak to soon about these issues. I never turst anyone anymore. Best thing to do if you were is to come clean, you will be respected more for this.

Diesel
01-11-2006, 05:55 AM
I'm not sure to be honest, last demo is dodgy though

terms
01-11-2006, 06:15 AM
Just seen it. In my opinion no wh or smoke hack, use of sounds and sight could account for all the kills unless i missed something. Only dodgy bit was last demo where it looked like the headshots hit before he aimed on the last section of sage6, but all the other kills on sage6 just before then were fine, he aimed first so it may of been some weird lag at that moment. Then again i don't know how he usually plays; but anyways gl but I don't think you do :o .

chobits
01-11-2006, 06:15 AM
its only worth watching sage6 demo, the others b4 arent dodgy.....

the only dodgy looking part was the multitude of head shots in the sage6 demo.

when he reaches around the corner to the 3 ct's its obvious someones behind there, cos u can see someone retreat there just b4. thats why he aims in that direction. now when he starts to fire, he's firing on the corner of the box and into it, then he notices theres another ct, and swings his aim, getting the other 2. when i swing my aim i push my mouse in the oppisite direction of the swing for less than a split second, its just the way you react swiftly, i guess this is the case for sage.

anyway if you think im chatting out me arse, just watch it and think about the crazy impossible multi headshots you guys have had, its just one of those gay things,

the shot from behind the box, is ok cos you can clearly see his shadow, and the other guy behind the box, its just obvious that he is still, there, its not difficult to get someone whos hiding behind a box and has no where to go.

fuck me im off to bed zzzzzzzzzz

Pondus
01-11-2006, 07:46 AM
cant belive this if this is true. havnt seen demos yet, and cant see em before I come home tonight.

I doubt hes hacking after all he has done for this community. But we all know that sometimes, when the moon changes colour, some regs find it funny to play with hacks. We all remember evilreborn.....

Anyways saGe mate, hope u come clean, even If that means u are found guilty or innocent. None the less, u will allways have respect from me and others on this forums.

.......

nabby
01-11-2006, 08:17 AM
all the demos upto demo 6 seem absloutly fine to some. sometime i even get accuse from poping thru smoke. indeed if u see their shadow behind a box, lining up for the kill isnt hard at all. however,sage 6 seems to be more interesting than the others, ill give my filly review whne i cme back from skl
hope u rly are innocent mate.

Deek
01-11-2006, 09:13 AM
stick on mat_wireframe 1

for all the demos before 6 and same for 6 ull notice something very intresting

sliCCk
01-11-2006, 09:58 AM
i would watch the demos but i have no idea how too haha

RocHeY
01-11-2006, 10:23 AM
tbh its hard to believe it but we know deek doesnt just throw bans about carelessly tbh :yltype:

Xampie
01-11-2006, 10:26 AM
i would watch the demos but i have no idea how too haha

dl and extract 2 where steam is installed

C:\prog files\Valve\Steam\SteamApps\YOUR ACCOUNTNAME\counter-strike source\cstrike

paste them there or extract 2 there

startup steam and in console type playdemo "demoname"(will appear)

use shift f2 for panel

and check forums... there r loads of threads containing vidio tutorials and further help

for the topic... i dont know what 2 say..... :/

dmg7
01-11-2006, 12:17 PM
fuck this is a tough one, really not sure...

tbh, not enough for me. I know ive done dodgier than his hs through the box, the way the crosshair moved was wierd though.

aLsKi
01-11-2006, 01:09 PM
cant even beleive this is happening to another FM reg :(

Bum eCuthbert
01-11-2006, 01:32 PM
guys put on wireframe. Thats the point of demos 1 - 5. eyeing people up through walls.

cruxi
01-11-2006, 01:48 PM
cant really say 100% but some of the stuff is definately dodgy. Eyeing up the awper through double doors, awper at window, aimbot on 4 guy kill in sidehall? and most of all, the now infamous wall banging through the box outside side.

But also id like to add, there are people far more blatent ppl than him on the server, but these are largely ignored. A few days ago when me and rap were on about 5am, there was literally at least 20 hackers on, inc. some1 running around with speedhack and aimbot (waffles?) that wasnt banned at all. He got bored and left... It seems only when someone has a name that is known to the community are they pursued by an admin.

But id say guilty, pending him going to harrow lan cantre and playing on fm and lets give him the chance to do that, under ph33rs/wizards supervision of course. Lets see if he still has the same style of play and heaton like wall banging abilitys and better flick shots than crucified himself!!!!. :D rofl.

Wizard
01-11-2006, 02:13 PM
looooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

tall reply coming later tonight.

im late for college right now. if this accusation by deek is wrong, who accuses Sage of downloading and installing and then using the following on FM:

"Aimbot, anti-smoke, wallhack"

after eurocss sage has been buzzed, even the car on the way back. he said he talked about how clever little thngs are, pre-firing he actually MENTIONED THIS TO ME, and he was like why didnt it occur to me before. he was POSITIVE, inspired and wanted to COMPETE @ LAN and said that in ph33rs presence.

so if you think hes d/led hacks, put on hacks nad used them on FM in what you call "blatant" then you have no real faith in his character. but fair enough, even evilreborn hacked that is just purely on who trusted him as amate level.

if sage ever hacked, i told him from the straight dont even EXPERIMENT, he would just shoot it down striaght away , ive known Sage for almsot 12 years. i told him, game or not i wouldnt trust you as a player or even a friend.

only person who ive met who detestes hack as as much as sage is floydy.

i wholeheartedly believe sage has become a monstrously better player, and playing at a different level.

tall ANALYSIS reply of the demos coming later this evening as well.

then im going to address Deek but more importantly Castro personally in another thread.

Bantros
01-11-2006, 02:32 PM
I must admit, I said it a while back before on TS one time. Don't have anything against him, but you know when you get that gut feeling someone is dodgy?

There's only so much you can pre-fire and get perfect insta-headshots, and then there's the way for me the crosshair is inconsistent in the way sometimes it's off, then other times it's perfectly aligned with every movement the other player makes, even tracking the body as it falls to the ground.

I know I'm not good enough with my aim snap my crosshair onto someone then keep it directly on them until they fall down dead.

EDIT: It looks almost like watching a few crucified public demos here...

And you got to ask the question, if the demos were under someone else's name and not Sage, would you say they were cheating?!

Crazy Diamond
01-11-2006, 02:35 PM
Erm, WOW!

Wizard
01-11-2006, 02:36 PM
right i had watched most of the demos when i made that post

and was becoming more angry at NOTHING in terms of hacks. both wireframed and night

ive just watched all of them including demo6


and im SHOCKED at how stupid at this stage one Admin can be.

i am furious.

the demo infact PROVES WHOLEHEARTEDLY That he is NOT A HACKER and a good player.

7 KILLS in the FIRST ROUND, the first 4 show him aiming high dragging corsshair down, adn you say its crucified demos? what THE F are you on about, you can see the GLIDE of his aim if you have ANY brain you can knwo that he is moving the mouse down at teh feet and using the RECOIL.

i said to sage in PERSON what RS said to me at the lan, its not aboout AIM its abotu where you HOLD the corsshair as you approach corners.

and soviet crosshair SNAPPING ont on the head has nothing to do with ANYTHING in these demos except the three kills in sidehal,

where i just left the demo on MY SCREEN VISIBLY AT SIDEHALL A CT RUNS BEHIND the box. before he goes round, so he woul d KNOW ones there, woudl yo uhaev preferred he saw that and came out facing the LEFT, NO not one clever player woudl do that, now there are THREE cramped up there.

beside the fact that if it was wallhack jus ta few seconds earlier he would have known a CT was coming out with his nade where he goes with his flash.

THREE CTS CAMPED BEHIND THE BOX

and sage understanding pre-firing KNOWING ONE IS THERE then FLASHING THEM, ASSUMING AS ANY OF US WOULD THAT THE CT WILL BE BLIND. he has 3 stupid ass cts cramped up agaist each other, and you are surpirsed he gets the kill. if just one of them when blind held their trigger down may have possiblty changed it..the ywoudl hav all exploded.

at that RANGE WTF DO U NEED AN AIMBOT FOR!? they are going ot get GRINDED.

long thick analysis with referneces to seconds coming later.

the demo has many points proving he is NOT a hacker. and the only substance that could assume was the kills behind the spaqwn box and sidehall box

but they were BOTH SPOTTED ON THE DEMO outside, and he spams the boxes.

both of them on the SAME DEMO appear ON his screen. you have made such an error, taht is so insulting and a deformation of this player.

Bantros
01-11-2006, 02:40 PM
Look at the first 2 kills on demo6, his aim tracks the players bodies to the fucking floor man, for me that is fucking not right.

The box kill at CT spawn, I can see the shadow to know the guy was there.

But what about the shooting then snapping onto heads? Who the fuck fires 1 or 2 shots before moving their aim lightening fast onto someone's forehead apart from crucified? That's all I'm comparing it to

Wizard
01-11-2006, 02:43 PM
ROFL all through demo6 he is looking at FLOOR.

for the GUNS, outside spawn eh takes the spawn BOX position as teamamte plants, hes looking at body@ for AWP + NADES+ FLASHES.

are you serious?

yo udont KNOW what aimbot tracking is then MATE. that is NOT SNAPPING AIMBOTS, are you NUTS.

there were so many points in the demo that if he used the aimbot would haev been there.

i can not BELIEVE this.

slwo the DEMO DOWN to 40%, to 20% wattch it, NO WAY ON GODS EARTH is there an AIMBOT and he box kills, are aLL jusitifed by the CTS SHOWING THEMSELVES.

i can NOT wait for RS response for this

Bantros
01-11-2006, 02:55 PM
I'm not talking about him looking at bodies on the floor when they are dead, I'm saying for example, the first 2 kills on demo 6 he kills 2 people both of which his aim is perfectly on them until their dead bodies hit the ground, that's good tracking right there.

Calm down, I can have an opinion can't I? Having watched a fair amount of cheating demos, I think I can form my own views on what I think it cheating and what isn't. The aim is too inconsistent for my liking, that's what I think, end of really.

I may be wrong, and I hope I am but at this moment that's what I think & I'd say the same if it was any other reg or some no-namer. No point in getting wound up here, innocent until proven guilty right?

Dr.Gonzo
01-11-2006, 03:04 PM
Wiz, you said you're going to address me personally and I'm not sure why, but I've said my piece man and that's that.

You have a close friendship with Sage and I think that you are not in a position to call into question an impartial admins decision. Sorry to say that mate, I hope you can respect why I think that.

If you watch demo6 in slow motion you can see heads exploding before the crosshair is anywhere near the head, the crosshair flicking across afterwards - a total irregular bullet pattern that makes no sense even within the dodgy physics of source. High ping does not cause this, and so far that's the only explanation been put forward.

As for wathcing all demos on wireframe - Game sense may account for some of the line-ups but not all of them... And then on demo4 to blatantly ignore the guy who's gun was sticking out. Weird eh? Almost as if it was a disguise, an attempt to throw people off. But someone who has spec'd a lot of hackers would know how hackers get caught, so you'd throw in the odd stupid move to make you look legit.

Or perhaps it was a genuine miss - If you use glass textures certain parts of maps do obscure things.

Look how many times he lines up a guy in top window when they're ducked down above the ladder. He even attempts on several occasions to get the extra height to try and pick them off. Then look how little time he spends trying to do this when there's no-one there in the wireframe.

Wiz - It must be tough for you man. But if these demos were submitted under any other name I honestly believe you'd be convinced they were wallhacking at least.

You've focused a lot on the aimbot - only really see anything that could be construed as an aimbot on demo6. Let's talk about the lining up, the cunning evasion and pre-fire that is NEVER wrong unless it's so DELIBERATELY wrong that it's borderline stupid.

I'd love this to be wrong but the demos don't lie and people have been banned for less. A lot of regs with a lot more experience than me have see the demos and feel that there is evidence of cheating within them. Before you hit me with the noob accusations I say this - I wasn't wrong about crucified despite being a noob when more experienced players stuck up for him, I wasn't wrong about Porky when people weren't sure. If it looks like bullshit, feels like bullshit and smells like bullshit, it is bullshit. I'm sorry if this offends Sam and yourself but that's my view.

Shaggus
01-11-2006, 03:31 PM
maybe it was a lucky hs the first 1 in demo 6...

but tbh if a player wallbangs a bit and gets a couple of random headshots one time, then he is hacking?? well if so, then every player on fm has been hacking

cruxi
01-11-2006, 03:38 PM
Theres only 1 way for this to be proven. And that is as Sage said in his first post, get him in harrow lan centre, hooked up to steam online, and get him on fm. Then we want video evidence of him playing! Wiz u can be camera man on ure phone, I know u east londoners all have camera phones robbed off some poor innocent student :P. Then I want a personal demo of it, so type record "fm1" in console :D.
Then Sage will either be entitled to the titles of dirtysecret or crucified depending on the performance!
Or dont do that Sage, and try to become an establised player for a decent clan and prove all these wrong! Then play against cadre and get instantly banned!
Sorry to put pressure on u like this Sage, but if u want to prove ure innocence it has to be done on lan tbh.
And yes this is a public case that isnt exactly pro, but ure known in person to ppl around here so it has to be sorted one way or other.

Tbh, I could see this as either a semi-good public player being really motivated to play at 100% of his ability at 3am, when lets be honest, most of the players he would be playing against arent exactly decent.
But for me personally, theres just too much of him peaking ppl through walls/boxes/double doors with mat_wireframe 1. But this could be used against any good player, remember the benefits of sound and gamesense. :D

Dr.Gonzo
01-11-2006, 03:43 PM
Porky was banned on the strength of one dodgy shot through a door on wireframe... That was the nail in the coffin that sealed it. I still have the Wizardoni video and even watch it from time to time because it makes me chuckle.

What makes this so different?

Dr.Gonzo
01-11-2006, 03:49 PM
What has that got to do with anything that happens on FM?

Shaggus
01-11-2006, 03:49 PM
u know what it is.....ive been wallbaning alot too and ive pulled off way dodgier shots then that..

1 demo doesnt give me any proof, cause good players know where the enemy will most likely walk and/or is..

but this is just my opinion

Dr.Gonzo
01-11-2006, 03:52 PM
Individual shots, fair enough - we've all pulled out a dodgy one now and then. Consistantly over the space of half an hour? Takes some doing...


If he did and played well, it would have been infront of FM, WIZ and RS (who else went?).

And I ask again, what has that to do with anything that happens on FM. I could play well in ED matches legit then hack my tits off on public. Just for the fucking kicks. What has gone before doesn't mean anything, and what happens in future doesn't mean anything either. All that matters are these demos and whether this ban being upheld is consistent with other bans that have been issued.

Shaggus
01-11-2006, 03:56 PM
u have a point there...but what idiot would play matches without hax and going on pub with hax ?? :s

Dr.Gonzo
01-11-2006, 04:00 PM
I don't understand hackers full stop so who the fuck knows? All I know is just because someone is a "decent player" or "not a teenager" or whatever other weird bullshit excuses come out at times like these, does not mean they should be above suspicion.

So far the defence has been Game Sense combined with High Ping.

Hacienda
01-11-2006, 04:02 PM
Watched all the demo's once, theres some parts I'd like too watch again but dont have the time atm.

Personally I think there is definatly very dodgy moments and some moments that you think no way he is hacking.

Very tough call for the admin team imo.

P.s no need too be agressive here, people are entitled too there opinions thats why this forum is public and not private.

cruxi
01-11-2006, 04:04 PM
*i will read the forum before asking stupid questions* Ben!

No he did not play eurocss, he spectated :D

No what im saying u pea brainers, is that if he plays with same style on fm at a lan centre with same/similar shot accuracy then it is most likely he didnt hack.

Listen, 40 man pub is random. Its very, very difficult to tell some1 hacks on 40man pub litterally because there is almost guarnateed to be some1 behind every corner.
Now u go into a skilled match and run around prefiring every box, and ull be lucky to get 2-15, cos ull be giving ure position away everytime.
This is why it is so much easier to tell wh in matchers than 40man pub, cos as I said theres usually some1 round every corner in 40man pub, which almost elimates mat_wireframe 1. Also, in matchers u can hide in an unusual place and see if u get prefired. By unusual I mean sewers as ct on mill or t spawn as ct on contra when saving, not sidehall on cbble.

ben
01-11-2006, 04:05 PM
And I ask again, what has that to do with anything that happens on FM. I could play well in ED matches legit then hack my tits off on public. Just for the fucking kicks. What has gone before doesn't mean anything, and what happens in future doesn't mean anything either. All that matters are these demos and whether this ban being upheld is consistent with other bans that have been issued.My point is if he played like that at the LAN with clearly no hacks, in front of FM/wiz etc then shorly he should not be banned as they have seen that he can play like that with out hacking.

As iv said i have not watched the demos yet so if its blatant, il shut up. There seems lots of different view points on this so i doubt its clear cut.

EDIT: bah il shut up then about the lan thing >:)

Fragmaster
01-11-2006, 04:05 PM
I have reviewed the demos 1/5 - nothing special in any of these submitted. I shall be reviewing demo6 carefully. I need to be 100% certain to uphold a ban without any doubts what so ever.

sKYHiii
01-11-2006, 04:25 PM
Was watching all demos in wireframes and slowed right down in places that made me think it looks like h4x.If you have time everyone should do this.

Im not as experienced as others, thats just my opinion and im sorry if im wrong.

nabby
01-11-2006, 04:28 PM
iv just seen all the demos agn and pretty much all my points are stressed in Wiz's long post (except the comments aimed towards other players)

castro, there was a time on fm, not too long ago, where i had a 20 min or so streak where i was pulling off some really bizarre and amazing shots. the same is here with sage, and i believe there is nothing 100% hard case that shows hacking. all sound and knowledge of the game can prove 1-5

6 is still, somethin im unsure about, and iv seen the demo 3 times, ill post up another comment about it in a few

oh and yea if sage is going to the lan, im going to :)

Dr.Gonzo
01-11-2006, 04:33 PM
Well, I'm surprised the first five demos are being so readily dismissed given some of the things that have been deemed bannable... There's nothing really more to say except to wait out the decision of FM based on demo6.

Bum eCuthbert
01-11-2006, 04:37 PM
explain to me demo 6 2nd kill.

his crosshair was at least 2cm away from the ct (not even talking about real-life, on about the computer screen) nevermind his head yet he still headshot him???????? Dont say lag to compensate that coz its bullshit coz how do you explain his 64% headshot ratio when hes lagging. every 10 people he kills 6.5 are headshots. Mr Headshot couldnt do that.

nabby
01-11-2006, 05:14 PM
running hs, bullet dnt go exactly where u aim

iv looked at 6 agn and it seems fine to me actually. the 3 cts he kills is perfectly fine, and the other deagle one is fine as well.

admins decision waits now

Dr.Gonzo
01-11-2006, 05:17 PM
Errr... Who's running? And of all the places to go why into peoples heads when the crosshair is miles away?

So ok, it's high ping, game sense and incredible luck. I'm sold.

STURM`
01-11-2006, 05:20 PM
Doesnt Hack end off

rokCCCaii
01-11-2006, 05:29 PM
Will, i think that may be becuase its not a personal demo and one taken from spectator, or even just a standard thing with demos I dunno, I havent watched any of these demos yet.

Bantros
01-11-2006, 05:35 PM
Gamesense pwns! Super sound pwns! Pow pow pow, game sense doesn't make your aim dodgy

Mikey
01-11-2006, 05:47 PM
the first round is abousolutly fine on demo 6 i think through the box is just pure commen sense u se a shadow their u know the boxes can be shot through so why not giv it ago.

but the second round i dnt know about maybe a bit dogey :S too close to call maybe runing around the recoil spazed out and he got luckey ....?

RocHeY
01-11-2006, 05:58 PM
running hs, bullet dnt go exactly where u aim

iv looked at 6 agn and it seems fine to me actually. the 3 cts he kills is perfectly fine, and the other deagle one is fine as well.

admins decision waits now
All il say to this comment is wake the fuck up clearly there not FINE the rest 1-5 are suspicous but 6 should nail it,i didnt really want put my bit in because FM has enough people at him id say. BUT.............................YOU ALL KNOW demo no.6 is easily enough to ban him it really should not be who he knows and is associated with.

If this does not end in a ban this creates a lot of issues.

what about the people who have been banned for less?
just because he is and knows a few regs should this mean he doesnt get banned?

IF THERE IS A BANNING SYSTEM IN PLACE IT SHOULD COUNT FOR EVERYONE TBH


and maybe i could possibly be banned for making this post but i thought these were public forums and this is my opinion which should be allowed just like anyone else

rokCCCaii
01-11-2006, 06:05 PM
Well 6 looks ok to me, only one I watched. Dont like to second guess the head honcho but I sense an unbanning, its +95% certain or nothing. sage or not I wouldnt have banned on this demo, Im only glad I dont have to, being admin is a thankless task that never ends.

Wizard
01-11-2006, 06:17 PM
due to castrso comment about "impartiality" i wanted t owait for a respect response.

and it came.

first of all, in regard s to imaprtiality do yo unot think CASTRO taht yo uare NOT impartial considering you have recently in alliance with Rochey REMOVED SAGE from the clan.

and prior given him the hardest and most undesirable time in the clan.

and although RS dont know rochey or barely castro, he got no reason to btiter to them.

hwoevcer i AM.

there is absolutely NO hacks in these demos.

and BUM

if it was AIMBOT, the crossahir would haev snapped on his head.

you NAILED it, "the crosshair is away from his head, but it hs him".

that is NOT an aimbot.

secondly, rochey is right this is a public forum.

but one mistaek i made EARLY in the fm community was to speak on a subject i knwo nothing about.

in this case, we haev a lot of peopel doing it.

and in regards to my impartiality, i would NEVER try to let someone hack if i thoguht they were hacking.

it is infact not that sage is my friend, but these demos prove he is NOT a hacker but a great player, he is progressed immensely past few months from mid, to now mid-high to high.

only thing he lacks is listening skills in regards to aPCW with having to "repeat instructions" and this is much to do with the location of his pc in the Lounge with television+family babbling on.

i would NOT porn off a hacking demo as legit if i knew someone.

and this was proved with RS when he was accused of hacking and i again attempted to step in.

Castro you said you "support Sammi" yet you and that rochey are the ones who slip in these snidy littel comments to get him banned.

well castro according to you, everyone nearly damn everyone hacks.

according to SVT_ everyone has rate and lag and he cant hit them.

if Sage is unbannaed cus "he knwos people" then he should REMAIN BANNED.

he should be purely unbanned cus a bunch of knowledgable whiny hack-accusing jealous bastards have got nothign better to do then sit online and incriminate people who are far better than them.

why dont yo utake some tips from the demo.

you are a soleless backbiting, backstabbing manipulative bunch of twats who now have irritated me beyond no further possible degree.

thesame idiots making uninformed remarks about a game style of play they have no idea about.

not onl yshouyld he be unbanned, but any Admin who is under the influence, jsut as Rapier was, of the peopel on Teamspeak who blout out in rage, hacking/dodgy is not responsible to bare the titel of admin.

its funny how for 5 demos you recorded, then caught a sincere skilled rally of plays (demo6) then posted.

in all previous demos yo uhaev nothing. in demo6 you have an example of how to play.

crucified was a hacking aimbot, and it was half you idiiots who couldnt see it, except me and a few others.

now thsoe same idiots are calling sage a hacker, and gladly a player who was playing while you were chasing schoolgirls (and yes you were proabbly 25 as well) has commented.

i am still so furious to why such a case ahs taken place, and ther are some serious issues with some peopel on teamspeak who really spend nearly 90% of their time incrimintating peopel they dont like, are jealous off, or just pulled a striking kill on them.

there are hackers on FM server, there alwasy will be.

Sage is not one of them ,and this demo SHOWS exactly that.


i would not hesitate to call it a hack if it were the case, let me emphasise it actually saddens me that this is being called a hack by many of FM regs.

well put it this way obviously there is a level of play above your head, and some of you, including the Admin are not fit to Judge it.

RocHeY
01-11-2006, 06:26 PM
first of all, in regard s to imaprtiality do yo unot think CASTRO taht yo uare NOT impartial considering you have recently in alliance with Rochey REMOVED SAGE from the clan.

and prior given him the hardest and most undesirable time in the clan.

and although RS dont know rochey or barely castro, he got no reason to btiter to them.

hwoevcer i AM.


these comment are nothing to do with the post and obviously me and castro decided together to remove him form the clan this was purely down to his lack of involvement which was barely any,and again none of this is relevant.I havent made snide comments either i was being honest but i understand why you of all people would be annoyed by some posts given you friendship with him,tbh m8 having a go at me and castro doesnt remove the issue of what he did

Bantros
01-11-2006, 06:32 PM
People do lag and I can't hit them, bullets go right through em and do no damage. Some of the damage I do do is ridiculous, I got two 1 in 1 hits in 1 round in a 5v5 with an M4 from mid range, crosshair aimed upper body.

Anyway, I don't even care. Like to aim like that on a LAN to be quite honest

STURM`
01-11-2006, 06:37 PM
Doesnt Hack end off

He went to lan hes legit... and bs is completly correct what he sed

Bum eCuthbert
01-11-2006, 06:37 PM
"if it was AIMBOT, the crossahir would haev snapped on his head."

i thought pourpose of aimbot was to hit heads without having to aim :S

Bantros
01-11-2006, 06:38 PM
Thought he was spectating at LAN not playing

STURM`
01-11-2006, 06:40 PM
the aimbot uses the crosshair to lock onto the heads and fire, check you tube or somethink :p

ben
01-11-2006, 06:42 PM
No he did not play eurocss, he spectated.
^

Dr.Gonzo
01-11-2006, 06:49 PM
first of all, in regard s to imaprtiality do yo unot think CASTRO taht yo uare NOT impartial considering you have recently in alliance with Rochey REMOVED SAGE from the clan.

This has nothing to do with anything here. We didn't REMOVE him, he just simply was too inactive to keep on the roster. I don't have to air our dirty linen here Wiz, but obviously you've taken exception to the fact Sage isn't part of our team anymore. This is the case for 5 other players. We simply had to trim down based on activity.


it is infact not that sage is my friend, but these demos prove he is NOT a hacker but a great player, he is progressed immensely past few months from mid, to now mid-high to high.

I refer you back to the Porky demo you made... Porky lined up a shot through a door and you exposed him as a wallhacker, something he admitted to. The crosshair in all these demos always wavers to where people he cannot see are on wireframe. But that's good game sense of course...

As for high - get some sense of perspective. I would agree that Sage has developed as a player, but as much as people develop their game that just doesn't account for the ability to know where people are. If you checked the same spots every round it'd be believable. Only chekcing where people are is not.

And high skilled players odn't miss guns poking out by the way.


Castro you said you "support Sammi" yet you and that rochey are the ones who slip in these snidy littel comments to get him banned.

Based on what's been said by certain people I'm confident he won't be banned, but I've seen enough in the demos to make up MY mind. Look at the thread and look who started with the comments by the way. And when he came on TS ranting and raving demanding answers as to why he'd been banned, in the presence of a respected reg and an admin if you're going to imply I'm trying character assasination, his attitude was far from respectful.

I haven't even seen a convincing argument from him. People have done it for him and I think we know why that has been the case.


well castro according to you, everyone nearly damn everyone hacks.

This is fucking bullshit and coming from someone who has had to play in games with Sage (late at night mixes of course) and on public with him on TS I guess the irony of him accusing & spec-ing anyone who gets a headshot on him is being overlooked. Indeed if the demo was submitted anonymously we'd be seeing a lot of different posts.


he should be purely unbanned cus a bunch of knowledgable whiny hack-accusing jealous bastards have got nothign better to do then sit online and incriminate people who are far better than them.

Saying stuff like this is just insulting Deek tbh as it was his call.

I've stated my own opinions on viewing the demo. It has fuck all to do with accusing players who are better than me. Have I accused you? Have I accused Bum? Have I accused Sov? Have I accused JJ? Have I accused w0rm^?

There's a long list and the answer is no. Do you know why the answer is no? Because they never do anything fucking dodgy.


why dont yo utake some tips from the demo.

No thanks - I don't want any cheats on my PC.


you are a soleless backbiting, backstabbing manipulative bunch of twats who now have irritated me beyond no further possible degree.

Again who is this referring to? Me? Who am I backstabbing? I'm saying EXACTLY what I think. No backs involved.


not onl yshouyld he be unbanned, but any Admin who is under the influence, jsut as Rapier was, of the peopel on Teamspeak who blout out in rage, hacking/dodgy is not responsible to bare the titel of admin.

This is just bullshit to be fair and I again don't see how you can bring Rapier into this. Implying he was under influence of players is a load of shit and highly disrespectful. People have opinions about certain players. Did Keve ever act upon his or anyone elses? No. He has only ever had 1 demo not lead to a ban. That tells you how thorough he was.


now thsoe same idiots are calling sage a hacker, and gladly a player who was playing while you were chasing schoolgirls (and yes you were proabbly 25 as well) has commented.

Well, while I respect Grieg's opinion immensely, he did not say 100% and the fact that even he has some doubt shows how difficult this case has been. Also, it's possible for experienced players to not be right on certain issues from time to time. You already mentioned crucified...


crucified was a hacking aimbot, and it was half you idiiots who couldnt see it, except me and a few others.

I was one of those few others - right from the start. But now I'm a mr. magoo style idiot for some reason in your eyes. Funny how things change.


well put it this way obviously there is a level of play above your head, and some of you, including the Admin are not fit to Judge it.

Again, insult the admin team... Deek in this case. I don't understand that form you Wiz, really. I know you've portrayed Sage as the greatest player the world has seen for some time now, but where do we draw the line in saying a player is just soooooo good it can't be hacks? I mean, I know given what you've said about me now you think little of me and I wonder how you'd react if I played like Sage does in those demos. Bet you'd be one of the first talking about my "sudden jump in skill" and my "dodgy lining up of shots". You'd call for my head on the strength of these demos... And I'd just be another Porky.

Well, obviously there's no ban coming and I think that the shittest thing to come out of it is that a whole lot of people that were all on civil terms will no longer be. If I was Deek I'd be really angry and upset by what you've said Wiz. As indeed I am.

Regardless of the outcome the positive will be that Sage will not cheat in future - if he was or not depending on how you view it - and I will be watching the decrease from HIGH skill to MID-HIGH with a curious interest.

And Sturm -


He went to lan hes legit... and bs is completly correct what he sed

Because he spectated at a LAN he can't cheat on a public. Fuck me, don't move into becoming a solicitor. "My client couldn't possibly have committed the crime on the 29th of September because two weeks prior he was walking his dog". The two things are totally unrelated for fucks sake.

STURM`
01-11-2006, 07:28 PM
I aint gona bother argueing with you mate,ul. Plus i am entitled to my opinion if you like it or not kthxbye

Dr.Gonzo
01-11-2006, 07:30 PM
I aint gona bother argueing with you mate,ul. Plus i am entitled to my opinion if you like it or not kthxbye

I'm not disputing your opinion sturm. You think he doesn't hack, that's fine man. You and a few others.

I just don't get what him turning up to watch a LAN has to do with you coming to this opinion is all. kthxbye.

STURM`
01-11-2006, 07:36 PM
I thought he played at the lan :p ops lol but i dont reckonhe does hack.:D

nabby
01-11-2006, 07:43 PM
can castro please xplain to me which bits he thinks are hax please, coz iv have seen everything in the demo many times and concluded nothigns dodgy, if needs be ill explain.

bum, u just proved that sage doesnt have aimbot with ur comment. aimbots, automatically put the crosshair on the head and then shoot, not shoot without the need of the crosshair

(btw i have another essay so i wont be as responsive)

ben
01-11-2006, 07:43 PM
Right iv watched the demos, the only real bit i think is dodgy is the 4 kills in side hall (end of demo 6), i know what i think, but I'm not the one making the decision so il keep it to my self.

Dr.Gonzo
01-11-2006, 07:46 PM
Look, I don't need to explain why it's dodgy. It's up the person who's been banned to explain why it's not dodgy.

Why not fucking ask Deek, Bum, Sov, Rochey, Sky, - why ask me what I think when I've already said it several times in the thread.

I'm glad that you've come to your conclusion. I've also come to mine. Turns out neither matters in the long run.

nabby
01-11-2006, 07:47 PM
calm down i just picked u at random, first name to come to mind. nvm then, jeez

Dr.Gonzo
01-11-2006, 07:53 PM
Your agenda is as fucking luminous as your custom skins - I can see it a mile off. Stay out of the politics.

terms
01-11-2006, 07:55 PM
Still don't see nothing. You can't view a demo in wireframe from start expecting to see a hacker, or you'll find evidence that everyone hacks. :p Innocent until proven guilty?

Like said before, on a 40 man server its more than likely that you'll be pointing at someone through a wall. If you watch the other demos u see he consistently pre-fires the same corners.

The last demo, you can't seriously dismiss that it couldn't of been some kinda of screwed up lag/interpolation mix up between either client and the server, its source man, its random sometimes. I'm not saying it couldn't be aimbot but based on the demo's before it and the few kills before that scene it certainly doesn't look like. I don't personally know sage either so have tough time saying why I got my view :p

Even if that was ab and i'm wrong, a little scene like that should not be enough to ban someone. We all have dodgy moments :/

nabby
01-11-2006, 07:56 PM
im not goin to bother anymore, im not gnapost at all until an admin as spoken. everythime i argue with u, it always ends up being my fault or im wrong. so w.e

terms
01-11-2006, 07:58 PM
everyone chill, what kind of mates all fall out over a friend being accused of cheating >.<, everyone got an opinion accept it

STURM`
01-11-2006, 08:01 PM
ul nab shame castro cant show any respect towards you ...

Wizard
01-11-2006, 08:02 PM
somehting that does matter is your constant accusation of my impartiality then ignoring your own.

what does matter is your constant accusation taht the Fragmasters community favours hackers just because it likes them as people which i think should be dealt with stern punishment to be frank.

what does matter is that you who have no experience of high skilled play, which is just exhibitied briefly in some of those moves (sidehall dont matter, flash, sees one ct goes behind box, flashes goes after him, ends up capping three) level are judging hacks without indicating exact poitns of the demo

what deos matter is that you have ignored 1.) rs who knows far more about the game than you do, and relied on your own, along with rocheys comments, you have ignroed taht rs called crucifed hacking a long with myself, while half the communtiy ignroed it.

what does matter is taht you expect a majoritively uniformed opinion to override a minoritively informed opinion

someone accused him of the two box bangers, well my argument was that they were both spotted priorly, if it was wallhack would haev taken shape in a different form, also in the demo he comes through sidehall and sees the top camping crouch spot in the corner and tries to see if a CT is there, if he had WH wouldnt he know? he box bangs it

what does matter that SVT_ said he saw the shadow in refernece to the box bang, which i woudl haev done anyway, as i saw the CT and his gun. svt refers to the HS up close.

do you not think that of all the poitns in the demo where to use the aimbot for the head, he would use it up close? let alone the fact that it is more than obvious his mosue is gliding.

whatever happens now, i think Sage can leave with dignity, as your attempt to sway everybody agaisnt him m8 may have worked on the people who no less enough to be manipulated but it didnt work on one of the greatest playersi have ever seen.

nor did it work on myself.

as for ben, if it is the only sidehall kills you refer to, then irespect your opinion, watch them again, and you'll see that taht actual sidehall segment proves tehre is not a wh, there is NOT an aimbot more so than any other.

its not his fault hte public players all cramped together in there, nor should he ignore it to conceal skill.

i watched those demos so hard to find hacks, but became more furious to find material which says he doesnt hack.
and castro said it, hes a friend of mine, so taht bias can hinder the credibility of my verdict.

well all i can say is, if i thoguht he was a hacker, if i thought there was evdence in there that proved he uses WALLHACK.

ANTI-SMOKE

AIMBOT

i would put it out.

well, you know what , the demos show nothing but a typical display of outsmarting, out shooting and just PLAYING OFF WHAT YOU SAW. from the enemy.

Sage was so positive after EuroCSS and looking forward to going to more Lans, playing at a high european level.


putting any lan aside, those demos do not show a hacker, and especially the you and rochey are banging on about it with blatant impartiality considering Castro you on several occassions have spoke to him with utter disrespect, and as Rochey put it "me and castro decided to remove him out of the clan"


so bang on about me being afriend, and yes tah tsi a bias, but dont be a friggin hypocrite.

at teh end of the day it comes down to the evidence, and tehre is not one shred of evidence in those demos that makes him a hacker, and moreover many exceptional parts whic hshow he doesnt hack, especially how he checks many places, and there seems to be NO ENEMY.

im still so upset at the quality of adminning taking place, and the nature in which these new wave of Hacking accusations are bleeding into conviction because of a few ignorant players.

sorry, but this is infuriating.

Yakkkkkk
01-11-2006, 08:04 PM
OMFG indeed!!
I just got in, had a read of this and hope to god it all a storm in a tea cup.
I'll watch the demos when i get back for the gym (for what its worth, i'm near blind and cant play the poxy game!),
For what its worth I would pick up Ph33r, Wiz, Sage and anyone else in the London area and drive to a LAN and watch / video Sage in action if that is what it will take to prove this one way or another.
sound over the top? well in my opinion so does all the people falling out over something that cant be 100% obvious hax.
I've not seen these demos but for Sov, Bum, rs, Ben, castro and Wizard, all guys that in my opinion know what they are talking about when it comes to haxors, to be unable to agree, this cant be 100%

Dr.Gonzo
01-11-2006, 08:06 PM
What the fuck are you on about Sturm?

The point I'm making is valid enough. This has split off into factions and despite the fact I'm just stating my opinion, 3 people now have gone for me personally despite the fact I'm just saying I think there's evidence of cheating in the demos.

Now I'm being asked to give a blow by blow account by someone who has gone from saying there was some dodgy bits in the demo to saying there is definitely no hacking in the space of a few posts... It's just more bullshit politics and I'm tired of it.

Wiz -


whatever happens now, i think Sage can leave with dignity, as your attempt to sway everybody agaisnt him m8 may have worked on the people who no less enough to be manipulated but it didnt work on one of the greatest playersi have ever seen.

Why just fucking me for fucks sake? Why not the admin who banned him? Why not Bum? Whyt he fuck are you saying I'm trying to sway people against him. All I've said is I think the demos show cheating.

Why do you think I have an agenda against Sage? I fucking wanted him in my clan, I've defended him when he's been out to catch a hacker and people have said he's not had enough evidence, I've praised his work for the community at large, I've spent many hours chatting with him through Steam friends about various issues... It may not be 12 years of friendship, but I have always thought highly of him. Check the forums for fucks sake.

Right now Wiz you're re-writing history in a way that would make Josef Stalin proud.

Hacienda
01-11-2006, 08:08 PM
Right, I've reviewed parts of the demo's I wanted too watch again and I have too say at points there does seem to be something very strange going on but like I said in my earlier post theres also instances where if he had the advantage of glass walls he would have acted/reacted a whole lot differently.

The last demo does look pretty dodgy but its not like any bot I've ever seen outright miss = headshot 0o having said that theres times when playing I've felt I should have missed but havn't and times I'm sure I've hit counting for fuck all.

In all I'm fucking sitting on the fence, argue with that you cunts ;)

All in all it matters little what all you peeps think, theres only 1 person who knows 100% and only one person's opinion which really counts for anything and in the course of time the latter will be known.

Really feel for the admins on this one and I'm glad I dont have too call it, extra important that they call it correctly and people are going to be upset either way for different reasons.

Wizard
01-11-2006, 08:13 PM
funny how 6 demos of pure evidence have boiled down to one segment in sidehall.


the irony is.


everythign else now is seemingly to eb justified by skill.

but one segment is now the most cause for concern, well isnt it funny that such a skilled player as seen in those demos and now cleared for dodginess for majority of the demo is percieved as a hacker undeniably by castro, soviet, and rochey.

to me it aint even a joke to hint that i would defend his hacks to save his face, thats NOT funny and i wouldnt do that.

this could boil down to be a terrible injustice

but all i can say to Sage if hes reading is that m8, i watched the demos, and do not beleiev you are hacking, and i was able to spot crucified + porky if that means anything

same goes for roCKKKaii.

keep your dignity m8. whatever happens.

STURM`
01-11-2006, 08:16 PM
Yeh ofc mate politics really have a major connection with source

t0ki
01-11-2006, 08:27 PM
Ok, here goes...this may not count for much but i've watched many a demo of hackers from when I was an admin on the mint servers to admin on my own servers.

I also spotted Masquerade from Inverse, and reported it to the TWL admin who did sweet fuck all, then about 2 months later he got banned from ED, and as the match we played against them wasn't in ED they could do nothing about it either.

Having just spent the best part of an hour watching the demo's after seeing some of the posts in this thread I really dont believe there is anything in those demo's that can be classed as hacking, especially watching a demo with wireframe on, on a public server as Term said you'll see almost everyone lining up someone in a round through a wall. Honestly demo me for a few rounds on a map I know like cbble or d2, and you'll see that.

Another way to test if he does or doesn't would be to get him to play a mix you and others, srctv it and then watch it back, you will have the benifit of knowing what was called during the match, and also knowing how good the oposition were.

In no way do I blame Deek for banning him either, we have all had the benifit of watching this in slow motion, with wireframe on etc etc. Watching that in spec, on a 40man server, at full speed...heck I prob would have done the same thing....hindsight is an excellent thing.

But at the end of the day, this is just MY opinion and the admins have the final say.

Anyway, I've got a match against TLR.eSports in 30mins, better go warm-up!

Wombat
01-11-2006, 08:35 PM
I'm an admin on another server and our general policy is that when considering demos, you should completely ignore who they are - don't let it sway you if they're regulars who you wouldnt expect to be that good etc...

In the end its not possible to be sure from those demos because there's nothing that isn't possible by a very skilled player with some luck on his side, so the fact that its sage is irrelevant

he might be hacking but those demos dont definitely show a hacker

unban tbh

Wizard
01-11-2006, 08:43 PM
t0ki your opinion is absolutely a pleasure to haev read geezer.

i know for fact you dont know barely knwo sage,

nor are you(As far as i know) under anyinfluence of rs, myself or anyoen who thinsk sage isnt hacking.

it was a tremendous and dignified post you made.

respect.

Partekk.sos
01-11-2006, 08:58 PM
I dont see anything dodgy at all in any of the demos... aimbot, wh, smokehack nothing at all. Its a CS player that knows what hes doing, like a lot of other players on FM server.
Try recording demos of yourselves when youre doing your best and watch em thoroughly. Youll see headshots when crosshair is off (part of the point of spraying...), crosshairs following opponents through walls (we all know the maps in our sleep so nothing fishy at all about it. Having played a map 1000 times you get a good general idea of where people move on it) , and lucky coincidences like looking in the right spot, running hs and so on.

Well played sage. nothing dodgy about you in my book

Dr.Gonzo
01-11-2006, 09:02 PM
Well based on what's been said and the opinions that have been voiced I'd support the unbanning that is coming. We all know that any cheating accusation has to be 100% and the fact that it's caused so much debate shows it clearly can't be.

Stuff's been said in the thread that probably shouldn't have been by a lot of parties, myself included. Fuck it - It's a big shock to have a reg banned and I'm not withdrawing my opinion on the demos even if people think it is wrong.
This was always going to cause a stir and after a discussion with Wiz on MSN there's lots to think about.

When Sage comes back to the community I hope everyone, regardless of their opinion, will act as they would normally. Everyone is entitled to a fair hearing and once that has passed and a decision is made everyone should respect and abide by that decision.

Ultimately all these arguments have achieved little except bad blood and nothing posted here apart from the words of Sage will have any influence over a decision other than the demos themselves.

JJmcb
01-11-2006, 09:10 PM
Iv not scrutinised it with slow-mo or wireframe yet but if i did that it would be 'pld jj', 'nice 1 jj', 'lol @ jj' shit like that. so im gonna give sagey the benefit of the doubt for now.

everyone is entitled to their opinions lads. its kinda fustrating seeing members of the community i respect and get along well with like rich and wiz having proper goes at one another like. dont like seeing the community being torn apart when at the end of the day its the bog boss' final decision.

Hugs and kisses JJ xxx

Crazy Diamond
01-11-2006, 09:14 PM
From them demo's it's quite clear that Sage was on fire.

I thought demo 4 was a pleasure to watch, he knew exactly what he was doing and did exactly the same thing every round, as do a lot of people...then there's the bit at the end where he gets killed by the CT on the box in the side hall... surely if WH was being used he would have seen that.

Banging the smoke at the entrance to side hall is nothing new, there will always be a/some ct's there.

The box bang kill he gets in demo 6, You see him run there, then you see his shadow, whats qrong with that?

I`m not even going to comment on an aimbot, I see every player I watch blatanly miss the enemy with the crosshair but still they get the kill. I thought this was something to do with specmode and lagg. You record some dude with an AWP, tell me how many times the enemy drops when the crosshair is no where near them, it's a joke.

Not that this has any baring on the, I just don`t think Sage has it in him to hack.

rokCCCaii
01-11-2006, 09:24 PM
Yeh the attacks were uncalled for, but I expect people understand others feelings on the matter and realise why things were said the way they were.

In any case after this sort of scrutiny I doubt sage would be trying any hacks in the future, would probably even think twice about wallbanging anyone legitamately for fear of invoking criticism.

t0ki
01-11-2006, 09:24 PM
t0ki your opinion is absolutely a pleasure to haev read geezer.

i know for fact you dont know barely knwo sage,

nor are you(As far as i know) under anyinfluence of rs, myself or anyoen who thinsk sage isnt hacking.

it was a tremendous and dignified post you made.

respect.

Thanks Wizard, and you are correct I am in no way influenced by any of the ppl mentioned above.

ps. TLR.eSports moved the match to 9pm, so looks like i've got wait a bit longer to have my ass handed to me on a plate :P

Bantros
01-11-2006, 09:28 PM
Should've been posted under another name and ID for a laugh

Wizard
01-11-2006, 09:34 PM
would probably even think twice about wallbanging anyone legitamately for fear of invoking criticism.

exactly what i was thinking.

Bantros
01-11-2006, 09:47 PM
If he isn't cheating then this debacle surely is a compliment to his improvement? Don't know what he's like personally so I wouldn't like to say how he would take it but I'd just be laughing it off.

But everyone seems to be having a dig at someone or something, come on ladies, leave it out

nabby
01-11-2006, 09:51 PM
in the spirit of.. good spirit, sry to any people i have attacked, mainly cas
xx

rapier
01-11-2006, 10:08 PM
i cant believe a disussion of an appeal or what should be a discussion has degraded the way it has between fm regs.

JJmcb
01-11-2006, 10:16 PM
haha unbelievable. i know how sagey feels!

was on ukcs 1 round! i kid u not 1 bloody round.

"you are being investigated salty parsnip" "reviewing your demo now"

i replied "go ahead my lad" made it half way through the next round and got kicked weeeee!

the 10 hs were pretty dodgy but legit tbh

i think what im trying to say here in topic with this thread is... injusticies DO happen

ShamonUk
01-11-2006, 10:33 PM
i've known sage for months now and i can say with confidence that he wouldn't cheat - not because he has spent so much time catching cheaters, but because, (no offence), he is one of the most innocent, naive people i've ever met.

but we all know the nicest people can do the ugliest things so we gotta judge this on evidence. i've only had a chance to watch the 6th demo, which seems to be the one everyones talking about and don't think there is anything wrong with it.

if he had an aimbot, why would he continue to fire after the 3 guys die behind the sidehall box? why would he be getting headshots BEFORE the crosshairs flick to the guys head? why would he throw a grenade, TWICE, as a CT comes running round the corner?

regarding checking the CT in the ladder room, it does look dodgey with wireframe on but with it off, his crosshair is pointing at the obvious places to look, either side of the window. however he isn't tracking the CT.


when we've JOKINGLY accused sage of hacking on teamspeak, hes come to me after, genuinely upset that people could think this of him.

everyone has their moments where everything seems to go right for them - your flashes blind an entire room full of idiots that you can mow down; the enemy appears just as you line your crosshairs up with the angle etc etc.

combine this "luck", with a player, who on their day can outshoot ANYONE, and i think all sage has to worry about is thanking deek for the footage he can use when he makes his own montage.

Yakkkkkk
01-11-2006, 10:42 PM
All the best players pull of shots or even rounds that make people sit up and look twice, sage is a class act, i remember a thread a month or so ago congratulating him on his improvements as a player, people often forget someone improving does not always = someone just found a hax.
Sage had a good night, a very good night and it wont be his last good night playing css, it should not be his last night on FM.
Well played sage, hope to see you back on the server soon.

Sage
01-11-2006, 10:43 PM
i was extremely hurt and at one point thought everyone i know from community was convinced im a hacker, and i cant speak FOR HACKERS, but for me, if itd be some random server i woudlnt have cared, but here i was like so upset and angry.

the posts which defended me - thank you so much, they really helped give me morale back, i only want to get better.

nowadays im only on aimservers/ deathmatch servers, watching demos of really good players an trying implement them into my game.

The Joy
01-11-2006, 10:48 PM
no hacks, 6 demos, and a lucky wall bang

gl to you sage mate

irishman
01-11-2006, 10:58 PM
Ok peeps,

I watched the demos over and over and to be honest I can't see anything that stands out as an aimbot, anti smoke or whatever.

I am the first to admit that I am not the best player but I like to think that I can spot a hacker.

To be honest, I dont really know Sage that well, I don't use TS much so I am not being influenced by anyone.

If I was really honest, I probably have more dodgy shots than that with my P90, its the physics of the game.

I am really sad that this has descended into a slagging off match between people who should know better and also the remarks made about Deek, anyone and everyone makes a mistake.

Mark0
01-11-2006, 11:06 PM
Having looked over these demos, I don't think he hacks. I have had dodgier days than that and I'm 100% legit and hack free.

That is all I wish to say on the matter.

The Joy
01-11-2006, 11:08 PM
maybe we're all actually closet hackers! simply trying to defend ourselves! kick and ban all ftw!

Superfly
02-11-2006, 12:54 AM
There is no need for slow-motion and wireframe. There is nothing blatant in these demos. This is not like that Porky guy, he seemed like shit. lol. You can clearly see that Sage is a thinking player, following certain routines. There is nothing random about him. If u spec someone, and that person gets a kill even though the xhair is far off target, it means s/he was aiming really fast, simple as... If u don't know what I mean, watch the Slap video, where one of them comes out of Aztec dd and awp:s a guy in the face (hidden behind the door) - that's the extreme version of it.

My opinion as junior admin should count for something. Not guilty!

salad
02-11-2006, 02:01 AM
I came on forums and i saw this topic and i was amazed, but then my mind suddenly drifted to the conclusion some dick was using sages name but apparently not, as i read on through this thread its becomming clear that sage isnt/hasnt hacked. I dont give a fuck what some people think and they can battle on this thread until it dies of over use but the main thing is sage isnt hacking.

1. He goes into sidehall (cbble) intelligently, he doesnt rush in on the middle of it he keeps to the side to close off the crossfire. People always camp behind that box and sage uses his intelligence and shoots thru the box rather than stepping out into the crossfire. Then he turns to check his six and what you know, he gets another kill.

2. Ive played alot recently with sage, good bloke, wants to practice his skills/aim and tbh its on par atm through the training he does. Me and him have outshot eachother with incredible shots on aim maps and yet we say goodshot to eachother and play on.

3. He hardly plays on FM and yet when someone comes onto FM and owns it up people assume the worst...which is what has happened. Just because you've been playing longer than another doesnt mean your better, and vise versa.

4. Wizard lives close to him, real life mates. Like he has said already he would never talk to the geeza again, so why ruin the friendship over a game, a real life one.

5. Admins can be wrong.

I dont care if im to be flamed or whatever below but i believe in sage and so should all the others. So many fucking regs also thinking he might be a hacker... those should know better tbh.

TOO much hate in this thread.

Dr.Gonzo
02-11-2006, 02:27 AM
Did someone put a new song on the jukebox? I just heard a tune changing.

salad
02-11-2006, 03:16 AM
^Pathetic person above who knows fuck all^

I think you need to re-consider your posts to this castro because you stated in the MIA forums that if sage isnt hacking you'd be behind him becuz he was an x-member of MIA, but on the other hand if he is (dont know how) he is hacking then you will slate him to death. WHY cant you back him up now rather than after the final decision, pathetic attempt to make people think you have his back when you clearly dont.

dick

Dr.Gonzo
02-11-2006, 03:32 AM
Has there been a decision yet? Not that I can see. I've already sent Sage a PM but I don't see what that has to do with your weird change of outlook.

I could say loads, but once again a reg has stooped to name calling and bullshit just because they disgaree with me. Someone who's meant to be a good friend of mine too. Obviously your little agenda is more important to you than the many things I've done for you over the time I've known you. Can't say I'm surprised.

Your friendship is a fog that disappears when the wind redirects. The same can be said of your opinion.

Fragmaster
02-11-2006, 03:45 AM
I have watched all the demos 1- 6 especially demo 6 in normal mode and wireframe as well as slow motion. Based on the evidence provided it shows that he is not cheating and the demo provided is not 100% conclusive for a permanet ban.

You shall be unbanned once I return home from work.

Bantros
02-11-2006, 03:57 AM
Welcome back Sage, sorry to have doubted you. Take my comments with a pinch of salt. As Wizard kindly worded I don't really know what I am talking about technically when it comes down to cheating, and I don't really care as I know I don't have to worry about it as someone else will be doing the banning etc. anyway.

However, like I said it was just a feeling you get, I'm sure people get it all the time, maybe even of me (not lately cause I'm shit) and I can't help that. Just being truthful and upfront, rather than thinking shit to myself

Pondus
02-11-2006, 07:27 AM
nice one sage mate, wb. Hope things gonna be to fucked up after this and everyone can put it behind and go on as before.

Branded
02-11-2006, 07:35 AM
thank fuck for that, welcome back dude.

nabby
02-11-2006, 08:04 AM
welcome back man

Yakkkkkk
02-11-2006, 10:57 AM
guys dont fortget Deek in all this, I'm sure he done what he thought was right at the time, I hope there are no hard fealings towards Deek in all this.

Yet more proof that admin is the football Ref of the CS world, everyone knows we need them, and yet everyone jumps on them when they think they have made a mistake, yet its rare people say thanks to an admin at the end of a haxor free session, Admins do what tehy do with the best of intentions of that you can be 100% sure but sometimes if must feal like they cant do right for trying.

Dont be put off by this Deek m8, keep up the good work. :)

Hacienda
02-11-2006, 11:19 AM
Well there you go folks all the arguing and pissing in each others pockets wasnt really necisarry was it, in the end everyone had there say and to be fair it mattered little, boss man has spoken and the decision is reversed.

Perhapse something that has come from this thread that could be looked at is a new rule for this section of the forum and the report a cheat section, people shouldn't feel intimidated and not post simply because there friends/supporters may have a go at them, I know castro wouldnt feel like that but threads like this tend too make other less strong willed people think twice before posting and that imo can only be a bad thing.

In short I think it would be a good idea to outlaw personal attacks and verbal abuse in the two sections mentioned above, with offenders having there posts removed its ok to have a difference of opinion but in this thread mud was slung and conspiracy theorys were abundent not a good thing imo.

oh yeah and deek rocks tbh :)

and finally wb sage never doubted you for a second :P
(seriously tho apologies for doubting you, although I never actually said I thought you were hacking I still feel bad for doubting you and not being sure either way)