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FlipAim
11-08-2006, 07:59 PM
I sieved your forums a little bit, and although you clearly have the right to take whatever action you want, i can't help feeling i have been very harshly treated, especially when looking back at the results of some previous threads here.

http://www.fragmasters.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=4042 - Racism was not the issue, but it was general and constant abuse unprovoked and proven - he was observed to be articulate and given the chance to learn.

http://www.fragmasters.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1373 - Racism displayed with clear evidence - unbanned due to unknown context. For me no proof is even provided let alone context.

So on a first offence that wasn't actually me (whatever you may believe), without any prior warning, i am issued with a life time ban, which even after appealing a year later is treated with aggression, even though i appear to be the only person on here who bothered to read the sticky before posting my appeal. Naturally you should be able to see why i feel treated harshly, with a sense of hypocrisy. Can i really not be given a second chance?

If not, perhaps in future you should consider posting evidence for the reason of the ban in the form of a screenshot to avoid any confusion. Especially as i do not enjoy being labelled a racist when absolutely no evidence exists to support such a claim. In fact my server operates a strict no racism policy, and in the past i have banned members for racism.

Thank you

FraG-TurD
11-08-2006, 08:17 PM
First link - as you said no racism involved
totally different problem totally different outcome.

Second link - 1 racist comment seen by a junior admin who should have know better and got a demo of the whole story.
thats why no ban was placed - And im sure you read the thread for the other reasons.

You were caught by Fragmasters himself he would not have banned for one comment so you obvioulsy was shouting your mouth of for some time.
Also he would have see the full story not just 1 half hence the life time ban.

Dr.Gonzo
11-08-2006, 08:18 PM
First you tried to decieve and bluff your way through why you were banned, then you said that it was not your fault you were banned, then you you went down the road of "hey I'm a nice guy" so i shouldn't be banned...

The outcome of all of these approaches were that you remained banned. I tried to nudge you in the right direction with the first post i put in your appeal. Imagine you'd posted a comprehensive first post without another member having to go digging through archives to find out why you were really banned. Maybe the outcome would have been different.

All cases are individually assessed and believe me FM and the admin team put in a lot of work and thought into their decisions. I know you seemed to think I was some kind of harsh, biased crank but I was telling you how it is. I didn't resort to saying the kind of stuff that Pondus did because I didn't assume you were a racist. But I also didn't get sidetracked on how decent you seemed now. It's irrelevant. People can shape shift and wear masks till the cows come home.

Taking it purely on facts the ban rightly stands. As unlikely as your story is, even with the benefit of the doubt the rules state the ban should stand. Clogging up the appeals section with multiple threads after a ruling has been made by the server owner and one of the senior admins is not going to alter the ruling or strengthen your case.

All solved with a new Steam ID anyway. Get your cheque book out and stop arguing over the "principles" because you're wrong within the context of the rules and regs.

FlipAim
11-08-2006, 10:13 PM
First you tried to decieve and bluff your way through why you were banned, then you said that it was not your fault you were banned, then you you went down the road of "hey I'm a nice guy" so i shouldn't be banned...

My stance has never changed - I didnt think i should be banned because personally i did nothing wrong.

Second link - 1 racist comment seen by a junior admin who should have know better and got a demo of the whole story.
thats why no ban was placed - And im sure you read the thread for the other reasons.

You were caught by Fragmasters himself he would not have banned for one comment so you obvioulsy was shouting your mouth of for some time.
Also he would have see the full story not just 1 half hence the life time ban.

I'm quite tired of being horribly misquoted and i'm assuming its on purpose. I personally was not shouting my mouth off for some time. This has been clearly explained. I don't really understand the comment about reading the thread for other reasons, makes little sense, i was just looking for precursors to this incident to make sure there were no double standards, as now i see there are, in that i have been banned for racism without proof, while someone has been unbanned for racism with proof.

Pondus
12-08-2006, 12:26 AM
DUDE! fo!

you/your moron "friend" were caught beeing abusive to ppl looking different. And u say u have a strict policy on ur server aginst rasicm? dont add up man, why the fuck would a non-rasict have rasict friends? clearly u must have know(/known?) that about ur "friend"!? clearly u wouldnt let him play on ur game wich u seem to love like the rest of us, when u know that fact about him. u cant say u didnt see this comming when u let ur moron "friend" use it. ppl like you/you "friend" never stop making rasict comments and jokes, why would u let him have a go when u know theres a BIG risk that he will type something like that?

Dont add up man!

And tbh, why do u wanna get unbanned on a server were ppl clearly disslike u? So u can make some more comments or jokes?

Fuck ur friends playing here, there are 1000`s of servers to play on, fo to one of them! we dont want u in FM!!! get it in ur fat head!

Crazy Diamond
12-08-2006, 12:38 AM
Pondus, I think that your aggresion is totaly off side sir, this fella is stating his case in a civil manor so there`s no need to take it to the low level you are.

Let him have his say.

dmg7
12-08-2006, 01:46 AM
ok, read all these threads (VERY UNSUAL FOR ME), but i can kind of see your point flip and i do agree with you in the sense that i don't believe you are a racist and even if you made a racist comment thaat you'd make it again.

However, you must see the admins point of view, as over the last week especially the racism suffered was shocking and totally uneedworthy, and it was a guy who they had given a "second chance", tbh mate whether you think its hipocritical or not i think just going out and buying a game for $12 (thats what i can get it for now) is worth proving you really want to play on Fragmasters.

Swallow your pride or w/e it is and accept that these admins have got to cover their backs to stop racists, as racists come in MANY shapes and forms, and mature ppl can be racist (and are more racist than youths to be honest). A good language and a sensible approach does nt mean your not a racist.

rapier
12-08-2006, 02:17 AM
:goodpost-

Pondus
12-08-2006, 02:45 AM
floydy, I appologise to you if I mite come off to hard.

however, I wont take back any words or say Im sorry for whatever I have said. I stand by it and I mean what Ive said. I hate ppl who are racist and I dont belive any of what he said about how it was his mate and not him. Its classic from appeal section, and Ill cut of my sack off before giving racist the benefit of the thougt (if thats the rite words Im looking for).

Crazy Diamond
12-08-2006, 02:53 AM
No need to apologise to me, I`m not offended at all, I just don`t see the point of using the dialogue that you do.

dmg7
12-08-2006, 03:25 AM
fuck off floydy... :P

Crazy Diamond
12-08-2006, 03:29 AM
Fuck is such a versatile word.

salad
12-08-2006, 03:37 AM
and ill use against you *points*

Crazy Diamond
12-08-2006, 03:55 AM
:(

Pondus
12-08-2006, 04:35 AM
well fuck can mean so much.

fuck you - bad

wanna fuck - good

FlipAim
12-08-2006, 12:34 PM
*sigh* :4-sulk: i will say it one last time, i am not a racist. Nor is there any proof otherwise.

Meh, thanks to some of you more democratic people who let me have my say, regardless of what you may or may not believe.

Nice to see maturity and honesty are rewarded on these forums.

irishman
12-08-2006, 01:06 PM
Just read all of the posts, you have made a valid point FlipAim but unfortunately you do not know what was said or for how long your friend was making these comments on the server.

FM himself banned your account and it must have been really bad.

Your steam account is your responsibilty and if somebody uses that account to get you banned then unfortunately you suffer.

I am septical though that your friend did not tell you what he was doing when he was informed he was being banned.

You also state that you have banned racists from your own server, would you unban somebody in these circumstances?

FlipAim
12-08-2006, 01:46 PM
This not just circumstantial, i honestly would unban someone if they had put their point forward in the same way that i had. I think it shows respect for the administrators and the public, and a sense of remorse that the incident took place. I would be content in knowing that nothing would happen involving this person again and so would give them a second chance.

I am not just saying this because it is what i would like to happen, it is what i would do and have done in the past when people have explained the situation in a mature way and assured me it wouldn't happen again, and it actually never has.

Perhaps i'm just an accepting person.

Dr.Gonzo
12-08-2006, 03:34 PM
If you let guilty people on your server on the basis of a kiss and a promise it won't happen again I'd go so far as to say you're doing a huge disservice to the other players.

Regardless anyway it's not how things happen here. I can't believe people are even debating about how you present your case. Like being literate should give you an extra life or something. Sheeesh.

FlipAim
12-08-2006, 07:26 PM
It should get you some credit naturally, i'd come on here with a post such as this:

'ere, i was baned a yer ago right, and i dunno what for but i reckon my mate did summthin, fukin noob. n e ways, unb4n m3 p1z?'

would i have deserved equal room for debate?

Everybody deserves a second chance, thats why we have jail and not the death sentence.

dmg7
12-08-2006, 07:31 PM
i agree,

i do believe in 2nd chances, one strong moral of mine.

Dr.Gonzo
12-08-2006, 07:57 PM
The second chance is the purchasing of a new Steam ID which no-one is depriving you of. Funny how the wording of your statement "everybody deserves a second chance, that's why we have jail and the death sentence" is kind of implying that YOU deserve the second chance. Not this mate of yours...

The matter has been decided on. I don't know why you persist.

lunatic
12-08-2006, 08:01 PM
yeah he has been rehabilitated and now he is ready to kill again on FM

irishman
12-08-2006, 08:44 PM
Personally I think the ban should remain. The reason is simply because of the nature of the offence.

The debate as to who actually made the comments is immaterial as there is no way to confirm or deny who was the person playing at the time.

Therefore the only method of punishing the person is to ban the account.

There has to be a deterrent, plain and simple.

Fragmaster
12-08-2006, 09:41 PM
CLOSED