Thread: where did it all go wrong?

you need to go a long way to find anyone more patriotic than me but what the hell is this country coming to!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/s...re/8559750.stm

The sentencing judge, Alan Goldsack QC, said the case was the worst he had seen in 40 years.
The judge heard the attacks on the victims led to 19 pregnancies.
Nine of the children were born, two of whom died on the day of their birth. Another 10 pregnancies were miscarried or aborted.
The abuse started when the women were pre-pubescent, and they were badly beaten if they failed to comply.

could it get any worse?

The father's minimum jail term of 19-and-a-half years was cut to 14-and-a-half years at the Court of Appeal in May 2009.

still its all ok now, even after the family had contact with 28 different agencies and 100 members of staff over 35 years and not one could do anything to prevent this its all ok now as the 2 abused girls "were given an apology by the authorities which failed to protect them".


speechless.

State of this country in a nutshell tbh.

Probably gonna get jumped on here but I don't think it's a bad thing that his jail sentence was cut - 14 years is a VERY long time in a person's life and if he hasn't changed by then, then he never will. Keeping somebody in prison forever does nothing helpful, it just costs money. Prison should be about reform, not punishment (though obviously some of that reform comes through punishment).

However I do agree it's fucking ridiculous that social services or whoever did nothing about this.

this reminded me of a friend of mine, who i am very proud to have called a friend:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/3087815.stm

sentencing Grady to be detained at her majesty's pleasure with no prospect of a review for at least 11 years,

this was in 2003 and my friends killer has already been released.

at the time of sentencing the parents of the murderer appealed on the grounds that 11 years in prison for someone his age would take away the best years of his life. what a stupid apeal case for a murderer!

Originally Posted by Prisk

Probably gonna get jumped on here but I don't think it's a bad thing that his jail sentence was cut - 14 years is a VERY long time in a person's life and if he hasn't changed by then, then he never will. Keeping somebody in prison forever does nothing helpful, it just costs money. Prison should be about reform, not punishment (though obviously some of that reform comes through punishment).

However I do agree it's fucking ridiculous that social services or whoever did nothing about this.

Yes but instead of sending someone to prison send him/her to a mental hospital and don't release him/her till declared cured.
And if someone can not be changed then they shouldn't be allowed back on the street at all but put in an institution for the rest of there lives (I am against execution even tho I feel sometimes someone does deserve it) as putting them back out there is just waiting till the next time they do something again.

Disgraceful, and he probably shouldn't have been the only one up in court how about all those officials that could only be described as criminally negligent of their duties theres no way you could miss the abuse that was in this case, surely?

Originally Posted by Prisk

Probably gonna get jumped on here but I don't think it's a bad thing that his jail sentence was cut - 14 years is a VERY long time in a person's life and if he hasn't changed by then, then he never will. Keeping somebody in prison forever does nothing helpful, it just costs money. Prison should be about reform, not punishment (though obviously some of that reform comes through punishment).

However I do agree it's fucking ridiculous that social services or whoever did nothing about this.

I agree the prison system dont work mate, figures announced yesterday pointed out that of all offenders serving a prison sentences of 1 year or less over 50% of them go on to re-offend within a year of release!!

I know Police officers and Prison officers and both have the same opinion, the courts fail and prison fails (in most cases) but what are the options? Australia wont let us send them over there any more, the prison costs are a joke! I think the accepted per head across the entire penal system is £40,000 per prisoner per year, I was told by a prison officer that works at Belmarsh that the figure for a cat a prisoner is closer to £150,000 per person per year! but again, what are the options... :/


ahhhh, dont get me started....

I Think if there was a death penalty nobody would even dare f*ck about. Or atleast serious crimes would be cut by 75% imo.

Originally Posted by H2O

I Think if there was a death penalty nobody would even dare f*ck about. Or atleast serious crimes would be cut by 75% imo.

aye coz the death penalty works in america doesnt it??? get a grip, studies have shown that the only difference having the death penalty makes is that offenders crimes are more likely to invovle killing to leave no witnesses to testify.

typical of the current system really

in my opinion, dont bring in the death sentence but extend prison sentences and actually make prison a proper prison! take away all the perks that prisoners get because from what i can tell they get more handed to them than the average working person, i am on jobseekers and someone who has committed a violent offence gets more given to them and provided for them than i do ffs.
prison is prison no t a bloody hostel they happen to not be able to leave!

omg...

what a fucking disguisting individual, this country is on it's arse in many ways, but this just goes to show how terrible the social services are.

btw hello everyone

Originally Posted by Prisk

Probably gonna get jumped on here but I don't think it's a bad thing that his jail sentence was cut - 14 years is a VERY long time in a person's life and if he hasn't changed by then, then he never will. Keeping somebody in prison forever does nothing helpful, it just costs money. Prison should be about reform, not punishment (though obviously some of that reform comes through punishment).

However I do agree it's fucking ridiculous that social services or whoever did nothing about this.

Sorry pal but I couldn't disagree more with you on this. This man deserves locking up for the rest of his life, the punishment has to fit the crime and what he did to his own children makes me physically sick, I couldn't believe it when I heard the story today on the radio. How this went unnoticed for 35 years beggers belief.

I agree to an extent that prison should be about reform but there has to be common sense applied a man like this cannot be reformed or ever allowed back in to our society. Personally I do not agree with the death penalty it serves no purpose and in my opinion lets the offender off lightly, but I do believe in locking these people up and throwing away the key and I'd gladly see a rise in my taxes if they're going to a worthwhile cause such as keeping people like this off our streets for good.

Differing opinions. But I basically just mean if a man came in to my house and raped and killed my mum and I was given the choice to either lock him up forever or see that he could DEFINITELY sorted out mentally, given a nice place to live and somehow guaranteed that he would turn in to a nice, socially productive, useful, happy man then I would pick the second option. We aren't animals and so we should act accordingly. Revenge/torture isn't productive, tackling the problem is productive. "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" etc. I'd rather we turned to the death penalty then to the 'throwing away the key option'. I'm still against the death penalty but it's basically the same as locking somebody up forever except it's easier, cheaper and more effective.
This discussion could go on forever though.

Couldn't disagree more if I tried but lets not get into it

sorry jamie but if a man came into my house and raped and killed my mum i would fucking kill him, in fact i would torture him for a long time before i killed him if i got even a sniff of a chance to do so.

Before I do my own rumbling rant over Prisk saying we're not animals...


Something I'd like to say is that I don't think it was ever any better. It's like when people say "There's nothing for kids to do these days." There was never anything to do. There have always been fights, kids getting pregnant too early, alcohol problems and people who are sick in the head. It's probably better now than it ever was surely?

About prisons, I'd like to steal a Churchill quote. Churchill, when talking about democracy, said something along the lines of "It's the worst form of government known to man except for all the others." Prisons are a bit of a shit system but there's not really a better, viable alternative. It's not practical or possible to commit the huge amount of resources to completely and safely 'cure' someone whilst making as close to 100% sure that they wont escape or hurt someone else, the amount of people in the prison system is massive. I'm not advocating a stalin hard labour camp idea but I do think prisoners could be put to use digging or something surely.

And I wonder how social services get anything done with all the restrictions they have on them. Did anyone see in the news recently about that muslim guy who thought his step daughter was possessed and ending up starving her to death? Social services went there a bunch of times, but the parents said "No thanks you can't come in bye". So they had to just leave. Not a fan of bureaucracy myself.

Originally Posted by Deadeight

Before I do my own rumbling rant over Prisk saying we're not animals...

You know what I meant, I know we are technically animals. I'd rather you did rant rather than just say something empty like that. Don't expect people to agree with me but nobody ever manages to come up with a reasonable argument against it other than 'i'd fuckin rip the shit outta thta diked prik kill im' or something along those lines. I think we need to try and get past this mentality is all I mean as it doesn't actually help.

And Mikbhoy, I would almost certainly beat the man until he was identifiable only by his dental records as well if I was in the heat of the moment, it's the normal response, I just don't think it's the best one is all.

Originally Posted by Prisk

And Mikbhoy, I would almost certainly beat the man until he was identifiable only by his dental records as well if I was in the heat of the moment, it's the normal response, I just don't think it's the best one is all.

i see your point mate but even well after the event if i got the chance i would still do the same thing, i guess you and me are just different kinds of animals. im not saying its right im saying its what i would do, right or wrong. it may not be the intelligent thing to do and i may not feel any better afterwards but i would need to do it, dont know why.

Ah, I didn't actually. I'm continually surprised by how many people think we're not, even atheists which baffles me.

It would be good if you could turn this guy around and make him into a really great guy, and I'm not even saying it's not possible, which is debatable. Sticking a bunch of criminals together doesn't make them all behave, it has the exact opposite effect, which is one of the many reasons prisons don't work so well. That, and they're so detached from normal life. But what system would you suggest? Ignoring any punishment aspect of it, hypothetically it would be nice to sort everyone out and give them the care and attention they need, but it's not possible to put every prisoner in an environment where they socialise with normal people and have a motivated team of trained, knowledgeable psychiatrists, and can't hurt people etc. We just can't pay for it.